Minutes of Proceedings 9th May 2006

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Boardroom Floor 7 Goodwood House
Belfast BT1 4NN

Present

  • Mr Sid McDowell (Chairman)
  • Mr Jim McCusker
  • Mr Desmond Mitchell
  • Dr Collim Patton
  • Professor Bernard Cullen

In Attendance

  • Mr Stephen Graham
  • Ms Susan Dornan
  • Ms Iris Lovell
  • Ms Julie Thompson
  • Mr Adrian Kerr (Chief Executive, LGSC)
  • Mrs Lisa O’Neill (Policy Officer, LGSC)
(All present for part of meeting)
  • Mr Stephen Peover (Permanent Secretary DOE)
  • Mrs Cynthia Smith (Deputy Secretary,DOE)
(All present for part of meeting)

1. Apologies

Mr Brian Hanna
1.1 Commission meeting opened at 9.45.

2. Minutes of the meeting, 26th April

2.1 Agreed: Subject to amendments to paragraphs 3.4,5.6 and 6.4.
Agreed: Draft minutes to be circulated to Commissioners in advance of Commission meetings.

3. Matters Arising

Item 3.1 Interim legal advice

3.1 The Chief Executive reported that the LGSC was facilitating the provision of interim legal advice.  Two consultations had taken place to date, with Jones and Cassidy, and formal advice was expected by 12th May.
Noted: Legal advice to be circulated along with any other relevant papers to Commissioners in time for the proposed meeting with the Secretary of State.

Item 6 Development of recommendations

3.2 The Chief Executive reported that the Commission’s consideration of a recommendation on managing vacancies might be informed by the presentation from the Local Government Staff Commission and the interim legal advice.
Noted: Draft recommendation to be circulated to Commissioners by 12th May, if possible.

Item 7 Procedural guidance

3.3 The proposed changes to the guidance (tabled) were insubstantial.
Agreed: The guidance was agreed subject to the Secretariat receiving any contrary views from Commissioners within the next few days.

Item 9 Membership of Commission

3.4  Commissioners noted the letter from John Hunter (tabled paper, dated 8th May) which stated that Judith Eve’s appointment as Chairman of the Civil Service Commissioners finished at the end of April 2006. Commissioners expressed concern about losing an experienced Commissioner. The Chairman indicated that he had made representations to Government on several occasions.
Noted: The appointment of Mrs Eve’s successor, as Chair of the Civil Service Commission, which is subject to Royal Warrant, is expected to be completed in advance of the next Public Service Commission meeting (24th May 2006).

4. Chairmans’ Business

Access to Government’s legal advice

4.1 The Chairman reported that he and the Chief Executive had met with legal officers that morning and reviewed the Government’s legal advice.  The advice was held to be consistent with the paper from DHSS&PS and confirmed filling the post (Chief Executive Designate, CED) internally would have had a disproportionate impact on males and Protestants.  It also reflected that, for a new, or significantly new post, it would be difficult to make a business case for holding a limited competition, which would not be open to successful challenge, although it was specific to the CED post in DHSS&PS.  There was no indication of the level at which an open competition would not be applicable.  Commissioners briefly discussed the weight to be given to legal advice supporting the “safest” option of filling posts by open competition versus the strength of opposing factors which the Commission might consider.  Commissioners reflected that consideration of a business case for the CED post did not appear to have been an integral part of the legal advice.  The Chairman stated that the Commission could avail of informal discussion with the Government’s legal officers in the future, however, the Commission would continue to seek its own legal advice.

Steering Group

4.2 The Chairman reported back on his attendance at the first meeting of the Steering Group held on 28th April 2006, at which he outlined the role of the Commission. He advised the Steering Group that he did not expect the Commission’s recommendations would be overly prescriptive. He welcomed the early engagement by Departments with the Commission, indicated that the Commission would not act as a surrogate for employers or trade unions and stressed  the importance of equality and other legislation such as TUPE, and the vital importance of effective communication in addressing the concerns of staff.
4.3 The Chairman indicated that the Steering Group expected to receive “headline reports” from Departments.
4.4 The Chief Executive reported that he had attended the meeting arranged by OFMDFM on 2nd May 2006 which focused on primary legislation and at which legal officers had emphasized the need for a consistent approach.  The Chairman reiterated the need for the Commission to be consulted on draft legislation which had a bearing on staff issues and that this was of critical importance.
Agreed: Secretariat to remind government about the need to consult on legislative proposals relative to staff transfers.

5. Priorities for the Commission

5.1 Commissioners discussed the list of issues presented in the matrix (tab paper 3) and the associated graphical representation.  Commissioners also discussed the breakdown of issues pre and post reorganization and its role in safeguarding the interests of staff.  The Chief Executive suggested that given the different sectoral timescales, the Commission’s approach might change from a sectoral to a thematic one after the education focused meeting on the 24th May.  
Agreed: Secretariat to follow up on Commissioners’ offers to assist in developing the matrix, and themes and to draft papers for presentation at  future Commission meetings.  

6. Draft guiding principles and recommendations

6.1 A revised guiding principle and associated recommendations on an effective Communications Strategy was tabled (dated 8th May).
6.2 The Chief Executive explained that, in the current absence of a mechanism for consultation, the draft had been sent, informally, to both Government and NIC/ICTU, but that in the future this may not be appropriate.  The Chairman indicated that the consultation issue would have to be revisited when considering the future recommendations.
Agreed: Commissioners agreed the Communications Strategy recommendation as amended and forming the Commission’s first Guiding Principle.
Agreed: Chief Executive to seek clarification on the consultation protocol in a covering letter to government and to indicate the need for monitoring and review arrangements.

9. Presentation by the Local Government Staff Commission (LGSC)

Mr Kerr (Chief Executive, LGSC) and Mrs O’Neill (Policy Officer, LGSC) arrived at 1320hrs.
The Chairman welcomed the delegation; advised that Mrs Eve was no longer a Commissioner, and thanked the LGSC for their comprehensive assistance, since the Commission had been set up.
Mr Kerr delivered a comprehensive presentation giving insight into the LGSC. This included how and why they were created, their purpose, main activities, their role in the RPA, and current issues and challenges facing LGSC.
Mr Kerr stated that the LGSC would be hosting a Communications Conference on 12th June 2006, to which all sectors would be invited.  The purpose of the event is to develop a tool kit for best practice, and to encourage the development of communications strategies.  Awareness of Commitment model would be used.
Discussion ensued on a range of topics including:
  • Timing of the creation of shadow councils
  • The absence of communication from Government since the November 2005 announcement
  • The relevance of the McCausland case
  • Ways of defining new posts (60% rule)
  • Harmonisation
  • LGSCs role in HR Subgroups and the relationship with DOE
  • Losing experienced staff
Mr Kerr and Mrs O’Neill left at 1430hrs.

7. Guiding principles governing recruitment to new positions

Commissioners considered Tab 5, “Submission to the PSC on the development of guiding principles governing recruitment to new positions” and expressed a view that it was disappointing and that it did not match with the Commission’s terms of reference.
Agreed: The Chief Executive and Chairman to draft a response to this paper and circulate to Commissioners.

8. Correspondence from the Secretary of State

The Chief Executive confirmed that the meeting with the Secretary of State was scheduled for Tuesday 16th May at 1800hrs in Stormont Castle.  Commissioners declared themselves available with the exception of Jim McCusker, who has a prior arrangement.
Commissioners agreed to meet at 1700hrs and the pre-meeting venue details will be arranged and circulated in due course.
Commissioners agreed a list of potential issues for discussion
Agreed: Secretariat to provide briefing in advance of the meeting.

10. Stephen Peover and Cynthia Smith, Department of Environment (DOE)

Mr Peover and Mrs Smith arrived at 1505hrs.
The Chairman welcomed Stephen Peover, the Permanent Secretary of the Department of Environment and Cynthia Smith.  The Chairman introduced the Commission and the Secretariat members, stating that the Commission was delighted to have representatives from the DOE at the meeting and looked forward to hearing initial views from DOE.
Mr Peover gave an update on timescales, the work plan and gave details on the sub groups that had started to meet within DOE.  He explained that 2 meetings of the Political Advisory group, chaired by Lord Rooker, had already taken place and that advice on the Transfer of Functions is expected to be received by the end of June.  This advice in turn would be forwarded to Ministers during the summer period and on to the legislative draftsmen by September, with legislation on the Transfer of Functions written and published for consultation early next year.
Mr Peover referred to;
  • the imminent appointment of the Local Government Boundary Commissioner
  • the plans for high level primary legislation, with the detail built into the regulations at a later stage.
  • legislation being consistent with the other Departments
  • the remit of the various DOE Subgroups and their dual purpose to input into primary legislation and to map the way forward
  • plans for an open and transparent flow of information, which would take the form of regular updates to staff both by hard and soft copy, offering all information available
The Commission invited a comment on how posts in the Senior Civil Service might equate to posts in local government. Mr Peover indicated that while this event would not materialise in his sector until 2008,he would expect advice on the matter from the HR subgroup.
The Chairman thanked Mr Peover and Mrs Smith, who assured the Commission of their future cooperation and a desire to engage in regular dialogue with the Commission.
Mr Peover and Mrs Smith left at 1550hrs.

11. Any Other Business and Date of the Next Meeting

11.1 Meetings with key partners.
Agreed: The Labour Relations Agency should be included in the schedule of future meetings.
11.2 The letter from John Hunter to the Chairman re: the 5 Chief Executive posts in the new Health Trusts were discussed briefly and it was agreed that it should be included in the next meeting as a substantive agenda item.
Agreed: Papers on the 5 Chief Executive posts in the new Health Trusts will be tabled as a substantive agenda item at the meeting scheduled for the 24th May.
The next meeting is scheduled for Wednesday 24th May from 1030- 1600hrs.
Chairman's Signature:Sid McDowell
Date of Chairman's Signature:  24th May 2006

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