Minutes of Proceedings 1st November 2006

Boardroom Floor 7 Goodwood House

BT1 4NN

Present:

Mr Sid McDowell (Chairman)
Professor Bernard Cullen
Mr Brian Hanna (present until lunchtime)
Mr Jim McCusker
Mr Desmond Mitchell
Dr Collim Patton

In Attendance:

Mr Brian Martin
Mrs Iris Lovell
Miss Susan Dornan
Mr John Hunter
Mr John McMillen
Mr Michael Daly

(present for part of the meeting)

The Commission meeting opened at 10.35am.

1. Apologies and Delegation

Apologies from Brenda McLaughlin.

The Chairman advised that John Hunter, John McMillen and Michael Daly would appear before the Commission at 11.30am to discuss the Commission’s draft third Guiding Principle and associated recommendations.

2. Minutes of meeting 11^th October

The minutes of the 11^th October meeting were agreed with minor amendments.

3. Matters Arising

3.1 Meeting with Minister Hanson

The Chairman advised that he had not received a formal response to his one to one meeting with Minister Hanson on 9^th October, however it was self evident from informal discussions that Government now had a greater awareness of TUPE implications.

Agreed: Chief Executive to write to Government seeking sight of the draft legislation on taking powers of direction.

3.2 RPA Steering Group

The Chairman advised he had attended the RPA Steering Group on 13^th October and raised a number of issues including communication and employer obligations. The Gateway Health Check reflected some of the Commission’s concerns. The Chairman reported that the Draft Transfer Orders in HSS Trusts would be amended to clarify the message to staff.

3.3

The Chairman advised Commissioners that he had responded to Mary Hinds (RCN) and that he and the Chief Executive would meet her on 17^th November.

3.4

The Chairman advised Commissioners that a response had been sent to John Hunter’s letter of 8^th September on the subject of the location of public sector jobs. Commissioners briefly discussed some of the issues and concluded that a workshop would be helpful.

Agreed: Secretariat to give consideration to the structure of a location workshop, which might open with a presentation from a Government official.

4. Chairman’s Business

4.1 Conferences/Meetings

The Chairman advised he had spoken at the BMF conference on 24^th October on Re-configuring Northern Ireland’s Public Sector- Meeting the Challenge of Implementation. He also attended the Chairman’s Forum on 25^th October and the RPA implementation meeting of the Chief Executives’ Forum on 26^th October.

4.2 RPA Affected Group - workshop

Commissioners were presented with a summary listing the main points arising from the workshop, which took place on 27^th October. After a brief discussion, it was decided that this would be subject to further refinement.

Agreed: Commissioners to email the Secretariat with any further reflections on the main points arising from the workshop.

4.3 Legal Advice

Members of the Secretariat met with Beverley Jones and explored a number of issues including employer pre-transfer responsibility under TUPE regulations; voluntary severance/redundancy arrangements and legal implications, employer statutory obligations in relation to Information and Consultation and the duty to inform and consult under the TUPE regulations.

4.4 Fourth sector, Cross Sector HR Forum and monitoring information

The Chairman advised that the Chief Executive had written to Government on a number of issues seeking an update on their engagement with the fourth sector, the work programme of the Cross Sector HR Forum and a breakdown of the monitoring information for the Director posts within DHSS&PS. The Chairman advised that Government were planning an event for the fourth sector before Christmas and that the monitoring information requested for the Director posts was not yet available. There was a brief discussion on whether the composition of the Cross Sector HR Forum should be widened.

Agreed: Chief Executive to write to Government seeking an invitation to the fourth sector event.

Agreed: Membership of the Cross Sector HR Forum to be raised with the Government delegation.

4.5 Draft HPSS HR Framework

The Chairman asked Commissioners for comments on the Draft HPSS

HR Framework. Discussion ensued on a number of issues including the meaning of “regional”, “high level EQIA”, and the lack of emphasis on the treatment of staff pre transfer.

Agreed: Secretariat to draft a response and circulate to Commissioners for comment. Formal response to document to be made via OFMDFM, the gateway to Government.

4.6 Draft Enterprise Ulster [Dissolution] Order 2007

The Chairman advised he and the Chief Executive had met on separate occasions with senior officials from DEL and the Chief Executive of Enterprise Ulster, and had taken the line that, as Enterprise Ulster is part of the RPA Affected Group, PSC Guiding Principles apply. Commissioners expressed concern that paragraph 12 of the Exploratory Memorandum to the Order stated bluntly that closure of the Corporation would result in the redundancy of its employees.

Agreed: Chief Executive to write to Government to find out what steps are being taken to try and avoid the remaining Enterprise Ulster employees being made compulsorily redundant and to advise that Guiding Principles apply.

5. Draft Recommendation - Third Guiding Principle and Associated Recommendations Staff Transfers

The delegation arrived at 11.50am. The Chairman welcomed John Hunter, John McMillen and Michael Daly, and invited Government to outline its current position.

Government welcomed the opportunity to clarify their position and said they were in agreement with the Commission in terms of the overall objective of the Guiding Principle. A discussion ensued on a number of issues including contractual terms and conditions; pension rights along with proposed changes to pension schemes and age legislation; third party dispute resolution; a Code of Practice and its application across sectors and pre-transfer obligations to staff.

Agreed: The Commission would put a revised draft of the Guiding Principle to Government. Government would respond, fully clarifying the intent behind the proposed legislation and Code of Practice.

The Commission raised the issue of the membership of the Cross Sector HR Forum, suggesting that, given their expertise, consideration should be given to including the staff commissions. Government agreed to reflect further on the Forum’s membership.

Agreed: Government to reflect on the membership of the Cross Sector HR Forum to include representatives of the staff commissions.

The delegation left at 12.45pm.

6. Draft Recommendation - Fourth Guiding Principle and Associated Recommendations Filling New or Substantially New Posts in New Organisations Being Created as a Result of the Review of Public Administration

Commissioners considered the redraft of the 4^th Guiding Principle, decided on some minor amendments and agreed that a final version of the recommendation be submitted to Government.

Agreed: Chief Executive to finalise the draft Guiding Principle and submit to Government.

7. Draft Recommendation - Fifth Guiding Principle and Associated Recommendation Voluntary Severance Arrangements

Commissioners discussed the 5^th Guiding Principle and following some debate and a number of amendments, agreed that the draft recommendation should be issued to the 100+ organisations within the RPA Affected Group, Government, the staff commissions and NIC/ICTU for comment.

Agreed: Chief Executive to recast the draft Guiding Principle and issue to the organisations within the RPA Affected Group, Government, the staff commissions and NIC/ICTU for comment.

8. Any Other Business

8.1 Guiding Principle – Employer Statutory Obligations

The Chairman informed Commissioners that the sixth Guiding Principle was likely to be Employer Statutory Obligations. He advised that the Secretariat would circulate a first draft for comment.

Agreed: Secretariat to prepare a first draft of the Guiding Principle and circulate to Commissioners for comment.

8.2 St Andrew’s Agreement

The impact of the St Andrews’ Agreement on the timing of RPA implementation was discussed and Commissioners agreed to monitor progress and review the position as necessary.

Agreed: Commission to monitor progress and review as necessary.

8.3 Venue for Commission meetings

A proposal was made to hold Commission meetings in other parts of the province, providing the opportunity for senior staff in new organisations to attend and give feedback on their experience of implementing PSC recommendations and other relevant matters. This would also raise the profile of PSC and improve communication.

Commissioners agreed to reflect on the proposal and revisit at a future meeting.

Agreed: Proposal to hold Commission meetings in other parts of the province to be considered at a future meeting.

9. Date of Next Meeting

Wednesday 29^th November 2006, 1030-1600hrs.

Chairman's Signature:

Date of Chairman's signature: 29th November 2006