Minutes of Proceedings 29th March 2006

Boardroom Floor 7 Goodwood House
Belfast BT1 4NN

Present:


  • Mr Sid McDowell (Chairman)
  • Professor Bernard Cullen
  • Mr Brian Hanna
  • Mr Jim McCusker
  • Mr Desmond Mitchell
  • Dr Collim Patton

In Attendance:


  • Mr Stephen Graham
  • Ms Susan Dornan
  • Ms Iris Lovell
  • Ms Julie Thompson

NIC/ICTU


  • Ms Patricia McKeown (Regional Secretary, Unison)
  • Mr John Corey (NIPSA General Secretary)
  • Mr Peter Bunting (Assistant General Secretary of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions)
(All present for part of meeting)

DHSS&PS


  • Dr Andrew McCormick (Permanent Secretary, DHSS&PS)
  • Mr David Bingham (Director of Human Resources, DHSS&PS)
  • Mr Michael Daly (Central Personnel Group, DFP)
(All present for part of meeting)

Apologies:
Mrs Judith Eve
Commission meeting opened at 13.25pm.

Welcome

The Chairman welcomed fellow Commissioners.  Commissioners had attended the seminar this morning, on the Human Resource Implications of the RPA, held by the Staff Commission for Education and Library Boards at Clifton House, Belfast.
Agreed – Commissioners agreed the agenda for the meeting.

1. Apologies

The Chairman advised that Mrs Eve had other commitments and would not be able to attend.

2. Minutes of meeting held on 22nd March 2006

Agreed – with one amendment, the insertion of an additional paragraph under Item 6. The Chairman will sign off the amended minutes.
Agreed – Commissioners agreed that there would be a predisposition to publishing minutes, following redaction if required.
Noted - Commissioners deferred further discussion on the application of Freedom of Information principles until the Secretariat present a general policy paper on this topic.

3. Matters Arising

The Chairman explained that items 3 (ii) and 4 would be dealt with as a substantive item on this meeting’s agenda under Item 7.  Copies of the brochure on the quangos was available from the Secretariat.  Item 6 would be a feature of the Commission’s meeting on 12 April, when Nigel Hamilton and John Hunter would be present.  Items 7, 8 ,9 and 10 would also be part of the agenda for the meeting on the 12th April.
The Chief Executive confirmed arrangements for future Commission meetings:
  • 12th April Mr Nigel Hamilton, Head of NI Civil Service 10.30
  • Mr John Hunter, Permanent Secretary DFP14.00
  • 26th AprilNo invitees at the request of the Commissioners
  • 9th MayMr Stephen Peover, Permanent Secretary DOE15.00
  • 24th May Mr Will Haire, Permanent Secretary DE11.00
Agreed - Commissioners agreed that the respective Staff Commissions should be invited to attend separately on the 9th and 24th May to give focus to single sector issues.
Agreed – dates for future meetings are as follows:
  • 5th June13.30 – 16.00
  • 21st June10.30 – 16.00
  • 18th July10.30 – 16.00
  • 16th August10.30 – 16.00

4. Chairman’s Business

(a)Correspondence

Noted - Commissioners noted the content of the Chief Executive’s letters to Andrew McCormick and John Hunter.

(b)Submission from DFP – Filling of senior posts in HPSS, Education & Local Government

The Chairman reported that this paper served two purposes.  Firstly, it provided some context for the discussion with DHSS&PS officials later today.  Secondly, it was supplied to Commissioners at an early date for the purpose of informing them of John Hunter’s planned attendance at the Commission’s meeting on 12th April when the cross-sectoral, as opposed to the single sector issue is due for discussion.  The Chairman also encouraged Commissioners to act in a corporate manner in terms of how the NIC/ICTU and DHSS&PS delegations would be handled and reminded Commissioners that no corporate view had yet been reached on the issues to be discussed.

5. NIC/ICTU

The NIC/ICTU delegation arrived at 13.50pm.
The Chairman welcomed the delegation and stated that there was no agenda for the exchange in this initial meeting.  There was a free flowing discussion between the Commission and NIC/ICTU.
Noted – The Chairman indicated the Commission’s intention to be open and transparent and that the Commission looked forward to working with NIC/ICTU in the future.
Noted – further communication with NIC/ICTU to be via email to Tom Gillen (Deputy Assistant Secretary in the Northern Ireland Office of Congress, who deputises for the Assistant General Secretary), John Corey and Peter Bunting.
The NIC/ICTU delegation left at 14.50pm.

6. Pre-brief for meeting with DHSS&PS

The Chairman indicated that the advertisement for the Chief Executive Designate (CED) had been put back from release on 27th March, and that the delegation would be addressing both the CED and the five trust Chief Executive posts (tabled paper Tab 4b refers).
Commissioners briefly discussed the options for the candidate field, with reference being made to paragraph 8 of the paper titled Chief Executive Designate Health and Social Services Authority (tabled paper Tab 4c), for leadership requirements (tabled paper Tab 3, paragraph 4) and financial control within the new authority.  Reference was also made to the statement made in Annex 1 of the scoping paper regarding a freeze on recruitment to permanent appointments at senior executive level (tabled paper 4d, Annex 1, Implementation of the RPA in the HPSS-A proposal for the introduction of vacancy controls, paragraph 1).  There was a brief discussion on a moratorium, the need for guidance and recognition that any policy was likely to have an important impact across all sectors, not just health.

7. Meeting with DHSSPS officials

The DHSS&PS delegation arrived at 15.10pm.
Two representatives from DHSSPS, and one from DFP joined the meeting and were welcomed by the Chairman.  The Chairman advised that this meeting would provide the opportunity for a discussion on the appointment of the Chief Executive Designate HSSA, and also to consider the proposals on the process for filling the five Trust Chief Executive posts.
The Chairman noted that DHSSPS had held back the advert for the Chief Executive Designate HSSA post and indicated the Commission’s interest in hearing further from DHSSPS.  He also advised that the Commission would give consideration to the proposals after their departure from the meeting.
Andrew McCormick began by thanking the Commissioners for the opportunity to engage with them and provided a synopsis of the proposed structure of the Health Service and the governance arrangements for the new model. He described the Minister’s urgency to proceed with the organisational changes and to have the Chief Executive Designate HSSA appointed.  
He advised that the Chief Executive Designate HSSA would be equivalent to Permanent Secretary level, having been weighted at 18 via the JESP process.
He then described the responsibilities of the five Chief Executives of the new Trusts.  He advised that in order to get to the stage of appointing the 5 Chief Executives of the Trusts, two prior steps were required;
  • The Chief Executive Designate HSSA had to be in place and;
  • The Chairs of the Trusts had to be in place.
At this stage, he invited comments from the Commission.
There was an exchange and discussion between the Commission and the DHSSPS officials, during which reference was made on several occasion to the Scottish model and to the fact, that little or no cognisance of it was taken by DHSSPS, as they developed the new roles and structures.
In summary, Andrew McCormick stated that the Chief Executive Designate HSSA post is unique, with no alternative to open competition and that there was a pressing need to proceed with this post.
The Chairman stated that the Commission wanted to reflect on this and would be mindful of the time pressures, in making their decision.
Andrew McCormick responded by disclosing that Ministerial authority to proceed to fill the Chief Executive Designate post and the 5 Trust Chief Executive posts by open competition had already been granted on the basis that there was no alternative and that the procedure was in line with that approved by the Civil Service Commission.
The Chairman asked whether or not a view was being sought from the Commission.  Andrew McCormick stated that it would be better if DHSS&PS could have a view but that decisions had been taken by Ministers, including the Secretary of State.
Commissioners made known their disappointment at what had been revealed, adding that not only was their credibility being called into doubt, but that any decision would be seen as a precedent for other sectors.
It was further disclosed that the Secretary of State had also agreed that the Chief Executive post in the Education and Skills Authority would be publicly advertised.
The Chairman declared that this being the case, the Commission was clearly irrelevant so far as Ministers were concerned and that it had been an entirely pointless meeting with Mr McCormick and his colleagues.
Commissioners expressed their very serious concern at the situation, adding that they would have to consider very carefully their membership of the Commission.
The DHSSPS officials and the representative from DFP left the meeting at 16.15pm.

8. Discussion on meeting with representatives from DHSS&PS

Much debate ensued with Commissioners voicing their concerns over the developments and expressing anxiety over their integrity, credibility and reputation. They felt strongly that the external perception of the Commission as an effective body to safeguard the interests of staff was in danger of being comprehensively damaged and that urgent steps needed to be taken to retrieve the situation.  Jim McCusker indicated that he would consider his position in consultation with NIC/ICTU.
Agreed: Commissioners agreed that, in order to retrieve the situation, or at very least clarify the status of the Commission, the Chairman should write to the Secretary of State via Nigel Hamilton, requesting a meeting with the Secretary of State. All Commissioners indicated a desire to be present at such a meeting if circumstances permitted.

9. Any other business

None discussed.

10. Date and Time of Next Meeting

The next meeting was arranged for 12 April 2006.
The Chairperson adjourned the meeting at 17.00pm.
Chairman’s Signature:__Sid McDowell
Date of Chairman’s Signature:  12th April 2006

Latest News