Minutes of Proceedings - 22nd March 2006

Mrs Eve (present for part of morning)

Meeting opened at 10.50 am.

The Chairman welcomed fellow Commissioners and outlined housekeeping arrangements.  Agreed – Commissioners agreed the outline agenda.

The Chairman advised that Mrs Eve had other commitments which would necessitate her only being able to join the meeting for a limited period of time.

Noted – record of preliminary meeting.

The Chairman had sought clarification from Government in his letter of 8^th March (tabled).  The Commission’s role and remit was clarified in the penultimate paragraph of John Hunter’s letter of 20^th March (tabled).  After discussion, the Chairman indicated that the Commission would draw on the knowledge of Commissioners and that it would be informed but not restrained by member interests.

Members also discussed the meaning of “safeguarding the interests of staff” and “wholly or mainly” and agreed that these were issues to which they would return.  Bernard Cullen reserved his position on these points.

Noted – Broad consensus on role and remit of Commission.

The Chairman indicated that Andrew McCormick had been present for part of his meeting on 16^th March with John Hunter, and that he had agreed to provide the Commission with a position paper outlining the rationale for filling the Chief Executive Designate post. There was also some discussion on filling 2^nd tier posts. The Chairman confirmed that he had sought clarification from Government at this meeting on a number of points including communication between the Commission and Government; the role and composition of the Steering Group, its terms of reference and co-ordination between Departments.  The Chairman reported that Government had not yet given full consideration to the detailed outworking of a number of the points raised by the Commission.

A range of topics had been touched on at the 16^th March meeting, and these had been covered to some extent in John Hunter’s letter of 20^th March. The Chairman suggested returning to these issues during the course of the agenda.

Members discussed the position paper provided by Andrew McCormick on 20^th March. The Chairman advised that Andrew McCormick had indicated a willingness to attend the next Commission meeting on 29^th March.  The Chairman and Chief Executive reported that proposals to fill other posts had been mentioned at the 16^th March meeting, but that these were not in the position paper.

Agreed – Chief Executive to write to Andrew McCormick indicating the Commission’s requirement to: have sufficient time to consider proposals for filling posts and the issues arising; to have sight of the candidate information pack (which includes the job description) of the Chief Executive Designate SHSSA post along with job descriptions of a number of other posts including Chief Executives of the Boards and Trusts, have the release of the advertisement for the CE Designate SHSSA postponed until after substantive discussion with Andrew McCormick at the Commission meeting on 29^th March.  Invitation to Andrew McCormick and David Bingham to be dependent upon these requirements being met.  Commissioners declined the offer of a PowerPoint presentation, but would be content to receive suitable handouts.

The Chairman reported that he had attended the announcement of the outcome of the RPA at the Europa Hotel, Belfast on 21^st March at which the “Better Government for Northern Ireland Final Decisions of the Review of Public Administration” publication was distributed.  Secretariat to: secure copies of this document for members and seek the numbers of staff being affected by RPA from the RPA Team.

Members discussed the changes in a number of the quangos; deagentisation; terms and conditions of staff being transferred; no detriment clauses (time limited/not limited); pensions provision under TUPE (3 pension schemes in the Civil Service alone); the Agenda for Change, training and potential equality issues with staff transfers.

Noted – Commissioners deferred discussion on the role of the Commission beyond 2009.

There was a lengthy discussion around a number of issues, which Commissioners felt would impact on staff as a result of RPA.

Agreed - Members agreed that the first guiding principle of the PSC, would be consistency of treatment of staff across all sectors.

It was established that the application of the TUPE regulations, which carry the inherent implication that several people working along side each other would operate under different terms and conditions, was one of the major issues facing the Commission.

It was further agreed that the Commission would require specialist advice on Employment Law, in relation to the staff transfers, and in particular on the application of the TUPE regulations.  The fundamental issue of pensions and how staff operating under the different Pensions Schemes would be affected, also required consideration.

The importance of good communication was discussed and Commissioners indicated a need for continual engagement with Trade Unions and for a strategy to ensure that there is a mechanism in place to provide a regular flow of information to and from staff in all sectors.

The issue of Training and Development was raised and in particular who would have responsibility for carrying out this function.

It was suggested that a member of the Steering Group should be invited to attend Commissioners’ meetings as a standing agenda item.  This would facilitate a quick turnaround of issues requiring clarification from Government.

The paper (tabled) was discussed.  Agreed - to proceed on the basis proposed.

The paper (tabled) was discussed and Commissioners were of the opinion that research was a key issue for the Commission and that a bid for funding for research and legal advice would be drawn up and submitted to DFP.

Commissioners indicated that they were content with the suggested headings, in the paper (tabled).   Secretariat to develop the headings and submit to the Commission for approval in due course.

A query was raised in relation to the inclusion of a sentence in the letter from John Hunter to individual Commissioners (tabled), stating that Goodwood House would be their permanent place of work.  Once clarification is received, the Secretariat will devise and circulate guidance notes and claim forms to Commissioners.

Commissioners agreed a suggested list of individuals and organisations who might be invited to early meetings of the Commission.

Members agreed that they would welcome meetings with each of the individuals and bodies listed and, apart from John Hunter and Nigel Hamilton, with whom the Commissioners would like to engage at an early stage, probably 12^th April, members were happy for the Chief Executive to arrange the order.

The Chief Executive advised that NIC/ICTU had agreed to meet with the Commission on 29^th March at 1.45 for approximately an hour and Andrew McCormick and David Bingham would be invited to attend from 3pm – 4pm.

The next meeting was arranged for Wednesday 29^th March.  Commissioners had agreed to reserve the morning to attend a seminar organised by the Staff Commission on Education and Library Board in Clifton House, with the afternoon dedicated to a Commission meeting.

It was suggested that the afternoon meeting take place in Clifton House and the Secretariat would make and advise of arrangements accordingly.

The Chairperson adjourned the meeting at 15.38.

Chairman’s Signature:

Date of Chairman’s Signature: __29th March 2006_